Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: Welcome to Real Medicine, real lives. I'm Dr. Yasser Sombal, and together we're showing medical expertise in a human way.
Hello, everybody, and welcome to Real Medicine, Real Lives on NOW Media tv, where we explore the real stories and strategies that help people heal, grow and thrive. I'm your host, Dr. Yasser Sombal. Today I'm joined by an incredible guest, Wendy Carroll. Wendy is a global executive leader and board member with over 25 years experience driving innovation, operational excellence, and organizational transformation in biotechnology and clinical operations.
She has managed global teams of up to 80 staff, overseen programs with budgets exceeding 200 million, and even saved over 4 million in clinical trial costs through her expertise in strategic design.
Now, as president and founder of Carol Morissette Consulting, she helps biotech firms navigate complex challenges, from rare diseases to gene therapy, while building strong, resilient organizations. Wendy, I'm thrilled to have you here today and welcome to the Show.
[00:01:04] Speaker B: Thank you, Dr. Sonpol. Thrilled to be here and speak with you today.
[00:01:09] Speaker A: So fear of change is kind of one of the most universal struggles. While it often feels like something to avoid, it can actually be a signal for growth and transformation.
So, Wendy, why do you think that people often resist change even when they know it's needed?
[00:01:24] Speaker B: Oftentimes people resist change when they know it's needed because it's scary.
We're very comfortable doing exactly what we're doing, being exactly where we want to be, and we're afraid of what may happen if things change.
So we try. We tend to hold on to everything very strongly and not go forward to that.
[00:01:46] Speaker A: Yeah. And so can you maybe share a story with us about how facing change maybe transformed your own path to kind of give the viewers some encouragement?
[00:01:56] Speaker B: Yeah. No. I've had a lot of change probably throughout my career and life.
The first one was I was actually a clinical pharmacist working in a pharmacy in the hospital when I met my husband and moved overseas.
So I was actually in the UK working with the American Red Cross and volunteering in their hospital as a clinical pharmacist when the opportunity came to work in the industry and begin my work with Amgen over there. It was something I'd never thought about and was something that really opened my eyes to what opportunities there could be and how industry actually worked, because it's not something that's ever taught in pharmacy school.
So it was. I took the leap and I've been in industry now, was there for over 25 years in a variety of different roles and took wherever my curiosity led so completely different career than what I thought I would have.
[00:03:08] Speaker A: That's great. No, I agree. I mean, career changes are a big deal, and, you know, even just changing jobs can sometimes be a big deal. I think the fear of the unknown, of, you know, what's going to come next. But, yeah, no, that's. That's. That's really important.
So. So when people, you know, want to make a big change or, you know, they're worried about it, what are. What are practical steps that, you know, they can take to make it feel less overwhelming?
[00:03:35] Speaker B: A lot of times it's taking small steps.
So maybe the first thing, if you're moving to another state or another country, the first thing is to think about what does that actually look like. Explore the housing, explore the surrounding areas. If you're changing careers, find out what speaks to you and how it can make it feel better. You know, get to know some of the people who might be there. One of the best things, I think during one of my interviews with Biomarin, when I went back to.
Back to corporate life after consulting for a little bit, was actually meeting some of the people during my interview and finding yet they were very nice and welcoming. And that actually calmed down some of my fear there of the unknown of working in this organization.
[00:04:27] Speaker A: Is there anything from within you? Like, for example, I sometimes feel if I'm making a decision and I don't know, am I making the right decision or not, but there's always kind of this inner feeling. If I have this big anxiety about it within me. Sometimes I feel like maybe I'm not making the right decision, I should step back for a second.
And if I feel kind of this inner peace, it kind of gives me this idea that, you know, maybe there's a power from above kind of sending me a message to say, I think you're headed down the right path. Do you think that applies at all in this situation?
[00:05:01] Speaker B: It does sometimes.
And I have a coach that I work with, Jen Lefine, and one of the things she says is, you know, getting out of what she calls your comfort cave, where we all tend to hide, and the scarier something is and the more fury you may have of making that change just means you're on the cusp of something bigger and of growth.
So keeping that in mind and being, you know, going into things with open curiosity and just being curious about what could happen and that inner peace. Sometimes saying anxiety actually is not a bad thing.
It makes you be a little more curious and look into things a little bit more than you might have and taking that leap ends up being one of the best things you've ever done.
[00:05:50] Speaker A: Yeah.
And do you think maybe a checklist, for example? So when you're making these big decisions or changes, having a checklist in mind about, you know, what are your fears and then what are your expectations and do they align with the conversations you're having or the steps that you're taking to get there? Does that help in any way it.
[00:06:13] Speaker B: Can for people who enjoy checklists?
I do know a lot of people who like to work with checklists. I'm one where I like to go sort of with the critical thinking and how I feel. It's more of the gut feel. Does this feel right? But having a checklist, and even before you look at something and making a change, sitting down and going through what you think the pros and the cons are, so what are you going? What's really positive about what you're actually thinking? What is really positive about making this change? And then what are you afraid of?
And really going down and then looking at those fears of the cons about why this change may not be good and seeing are these things, is it holding you back from being where you really want to be?
Or is it just something that you're getting out of this comfort cave that you sort of built around yourself and have been comfortable in for, say, the last five years?
And it's a little scary stepping out of that and putting a toe outside and seeing how things have changed around you or how things may change around you.
So what is it trying to determine what it is that may be holding you back from that change and seeing, can you overcome that?
If you can't, maybe it's not the right time to make a big change. Maybe you can look at making a smaller change that will get you in position to eventually make that big change.
[00:07:38] Speaker A: And so you mentioned fear can sometimes be your anxiety, can sometimes be a signal that something good is on the other side or something better may be coming. And so how do people, you know, people always associate fear and anxiety with negativity?
So how do you suggest to the viewers, how do you take that fear and anxiety, that usually taken as negative energy, and turn it into a positive thing for yourself?
[00:08:05] Speaker B: It's really looking at what it is you're going for.
So taking the fear and understanding the fear and maybe giving it a name and switching it around. Think about when you first went to school, first went, you know, if grade school first went to college or went away from home for the first time or went on your first trip, you know, big trip somewhere, say, overseas or even to another state, there may have been some fear about going because it was unknown.
But the more you explore it and the more you understand what you're going to be doing and actually go in. And even if you sit back and observe for a little bit until you're comfortable taking the next step and meeting one person and then meeting another person and then meeting another, and eventually you'll find that it wasn't that hard to do and that your fear actually was setting you, sending you to the right place.
And while it was making you cautious, it also made you curious to learn more, to dispel the fear that was inside you.
[00:09:12] Speaker A: That's really interesting that you say that, because I think if every person just stepped back for a second and looked at moments where they were afraid and then took themselves 20 years forward when they made that decision and did it, they would probably look back and feel that's exactly what happened. I mean, if I even just related it to myself. And I was like, I remember when I got into med school and I had to move states, and it was my first time to leave my family to go away.
I mean, I lived at home during college, everything.
And I just remember thinking, I want to delay my entry to med school for a year because I'm not ready to go and leave my family. And then here I am, looking back 20 years later, I'm like, I learned a lot. I made a lot of good friends that I'm still friends with during that time. There was a lot of growth that happened to me during those four years.
So you're right. I think people can relate to that really, really well. If they were just actually look back at times that they were fearful or have anxiety towards something and look at it moving forward, what exactly happened and what. What they got out of it.
[00:10:12] Speaker B: So, yeah, and sometimes it's sitting down and actually making a list of some of the big things that you've done in your life and realizing that, oh, I did do those things. Yeah, I was afraid of doing them, but I did them and they were no big deal. What was I really afraid of at the time?
So sometimes that hindsight can actually really help you move forward, continue to move forward.
[00:10:36] Speaker A: Right.
So just to kind of close it out. So when people finally embrace that change, you know what happens when they finally decide to embrace it instead of fighting it?
[00:10:47] Speaker B: You find all sorts of wonderful things can happen.
We just made a huge change moving from California to Oregon and having my parents move in with us as well so we could be closer to our kids. And it was a huge change and a lot of planning over a good three months and we're still not done with it yet. However, it has been so beneficial and so nice to be closer to our kids and be able to see them more, to be closer to my parents. The community we're in is very welcoming and not something we expected to see.
So we found some really nice things about doing the change, even though we were a little fearful about doing it.
[00:11:31] Speaker A: Yeah, makes sense. So, okay, so we're gonna go to the next segment soon. Coming up, we're gonna shift to a topic that touches everyone, turning life's toughest setbacks into stepping stones for growth. So everybody stay with us. We'll be back to talk more with Wende.
Stick with us. We'll be right back with more real stories, real breakthroughs and real lives transformed.
And we're back. I'm Dr. Yasser Sombol. Let's dive right back into today's medical conversation.
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So I'm back, everybody, with global executive leader Wendy Carroll. And in this segment, we're going to talk about something everyone's a setback. Too often people view failure as the end of the road, when in reality it can be the beginning of something new Life Setbacks can feel crushing, but with resilience and right perspective, they can become stepping tones towards greater and bigger opportunities. Wendy, welcome back.
Thank you. So let's start out. So why do people always see failure as the end instead of a new beginning?
[00:13:15] Speaker B: I think from a societal perspective, we're always taught to win and we're it's within society it's ingrained that you have winners and losers. If you fail at something, you're a loser and you should go sit on the sidelines.
Nobody wants to celebrate the losers or we only celebrate people who win and people who do great things. So everybody thinks they have to live up to that standard and not really look at what was the failure? Was it really that big? And how do I Move on from it. We aren't trained to do that or aren't always given the grace to think about that, about what happened, and really learn from our setbacks.
[00:14:01] Speaker A: That's true. Yeah. Setbacks are, you know, they can be hard on people if you don't, you know, I think you have to take it with a grain, you know, kind of this perspective, like, okay, I got setback, but what am I going to do moving forward? You know?
So can you share a personal setback that turned out to be a blessing in disguise for you?
[00:14:20] Speaker B: Yeah. In my first role, I'd been with the company for over 20 years and they went through a reorganization.
And with the reorganization, they eliminated my role.
So as part of that, I was able to take a severance package and leave. But it really hurt. It was like I didn't feel valued at the time. And all I could think of is I was fired and what do I do now?
Because I had never been through that before.
As I looked at it, a few things happened. One, I realized I'd gotten so comfortable at that company that when recruiters had called, I hadn't even paid attention to them recruiting me. I was oblivious to it.
And there were some opportunities that I probably gave up because I was comfortable.
And secondly, we decided to make a move.
And with that move, we ended up in a different area. Our daughter went to high school in a different place than where our son went. And that actually turned out to be a blessing because she got the choir program and some of the programs she was introduced to were very different and were great for her growth.
And also for me, I actually went out and learned how to be a consultant during that time and worked for a few people and then went back to corporate life and had a wonderful six year period at Biomarin working with people with rare diseases, which I never would have had the opportunity to get involved in previously.
[00:15:50] Speaker A: Yeah, no, I think that's. That's a very interesting perspective. And, you know, I mean, I agree with you. I've. I can personally relate to setbacks in my life where at the time I felt like the world was ending. And then, you know, and then I think over time and as I grew through things, I realized that even things like anger, so you could be angry at a situation, but anger can be a very productive tool if channeled and used correctly, can actually make you, you know, very, very productive and do very, very good things for yourself because as long as you don't use it in a negative fashion and harbor that as a positive energy, Somehow. And I think over the years, my life has taught me how to do that, which is really, really good.
And so going to the next topic is how can people reframe failure so that it's a fuel for growth instead of shame?
[00:16:39] Speaker B: Well, some of it is it's okay to be angry, it's okay to be upset. Work through those things.
But the other is, what did you learn from that failure?
Go back and almost dissect it and say, what did I learn?
Where did things go wrong and how am I going to change this in the future?
How do I make things better? What else do I want to do? If it's failure in a job where you did a presentation wrong or you forgot half your presentation in the middle of it and had to restart and you just feel like a fool up on the stage, give yourself a little bit of a break. Some of it could have been nerves and maybe look at joining a Toastmasters Club or something to help with your public speaking so you don't get that nervous again and that you feel more confident in what you're doing.
And sometimes you talked about having anger and the anger being productive. It can be. Use it as a. Well, I'll show them I can do this.
Yeah, you told me I couldn't do it. You told me I failed at it. Guess what? I know I can do it. I'm going to show you. And I'm going to be as productive and the best at this activity as I can be.
So you use it for your personal growth.
[00:17:57] Speaker A: Yeah, no, I agree.
I think this topic in this conversation always reminds me of the Rocky movie. You know, the one where he was going back to fight when he was older and he has got that famous line in there where he tells his son, you know, it's not about how hard you get hit or. No, it's not. Life is always going to punch you, but it's about how hard you take that hit and you get up and you fight back. Because that's exactly what's going to happen. Because if you let life get in the way, it's going to break you down to your knees, basically, you know, if you had to. So I think it's really true. You're right. I mean, setbacks are going to happen and they're going to happen to everybody at any point in any life and at any age even. You know, I mean, I go through some of this with my son with school. You know, he's struggling with advanced math and, you know, he's beating himself up and I Said, you know, this is not going to be the hardest class you're ever going to take. And you know you're going to have this happen again. But if you don't learn how to deal with the disappointment of this or, you know, figure out what you can do differently, you know, this is going to be a big problem for you moving forward. And so you got to take it as a growth opportunity, not a, you know, hey, I suck and I'm horrible at math and I'm never going to get better. No, it's just maybe this is above your level and that's okay, you know, that's that happens. So and so, you know, give us from your perspective what steps people can take to bounce back after life knocks them down.
[00:19:21] Speaker B: Part of it is one, giving yourself the grace to just wallow if you need to for a little bit.
It depends on what the setback is. If it's failing a math test is one thing, and it's okay. What did I do? Did I not study or did I not study correctly? Did I give it my all and do the best that I could do?
If it's the best you can do, then you live with it and you move on and you learn. Okay, with the math test, as you were talking about the struggles with math, maybe you need to study more. Maybe you need to study differently and, you know, talk to some of the students who did well and see how they studied for it and how they understand it and actually work with them in between as a study group before the next test and see how that helps.
Another is if it's a setback where you've been fired for whatever reason, knows a lot of times it's not personal, it's not about you as a person.
It's really about the organization and where the organization is going. A lot of people I know are going through this right now and have been in the last year or so, especially in the biotech industry, there have been a lot of layoffs, and a lot of that has to do with the industry itself and with the different companies trying to survive. It's not about the people who've been left. Go, let go.
So learn from it. Listen to it. Use your network.
Remember, you have a network of people that you've worked with, a network of friends and rely on them and talk to them and get out and talk to other people. If you're looking for a new job, talk to people, use your network. Let them know you're looking for a new job and what you're looking for you never know who may have something that may interest you or that they may be able to refer you to and look at it positively and say, okay, I let myself sit with this for a month after being let go. Now what am I going to do to move forward?
Am I going, you know, do I want to go back to doing exactly what I did? Is this an opportunity to try something new and try something different that will actually get me excited to wake up and go to work every day?
Is it something where I'm able to stay home for a little bit? You know what, I have a young family and I want to stay home with them.
And you're able to afford it, then do it and do something on the side that just fills you with joy.
[00:21:56] Speaker A: I think this takes us to the next question and I think this is a really, really important thing. You know, the concept of resilience, which I think has really fallen off in the last few years, to be honest. And as younger generations come up, I think that is a really thing that they're lacking is resilience because they want to give up so easily all the time now. And so tell us, you know, why you think resilience is one of the most important skills people can carry in life.
[00:22:26] Speaker B: Being resilient to change, to setbacks and just to life is one of the most important things you can have. If you're not resilient and you don't bounce back, anything untoward that happens to you can really set you back and have you starting all over again and not it knocks you down and you lose your confidence.
So without self confidence and knowing that you can do something and do it well, you don't, you don't become productive.
You end up turning everybody out.
You don't go out and network, you don't talk to friends.
Without the resilience to bounce back and say, you know, I can overcome this. And it's a learning, it's turning that setback and changing it to this is a learning opportunity.
What can I learn from this? How do I move forward? And I think I, and I agree with you. The resilience and the ability to fail and move forward is something that is lacking in a lot of areas right now.
I think we're seeing so much change and so much upheaval and so many people, I think around the world at the moment, with just the global economics and the way things are changing, they're feeling defeated.
What I do doesn't matter, right? But everybody has a voice and what everybody does does matter. Even in A small, even if it's in a small way just to your family, it still matters. So being resilient, being able to dust yourself off and keep moving is a key skill that you need in life because you will never, nothing will ever be perfect and go exactly how you want it.
[00:24:19] Speaker A: That's, that's really good insight. I appreciate that. And so, Wendy, if viewers wanted to connect with you or learn more about your consulting work, where can they reach out to you?
[00:24:29] Speaker B: The best place is probably through my LinkedIn profile, which is now showing on the screen.
So reach out, send me a direct message through there.
I'm always happy to connect with people, always happy to have a call and talk, talk and learn about what people are going through. And if I can be of any help and help make any connections, please let me know.
[00:24:52] Speaker A: Great. All right, everybody. Coming up, we're going to take a closer look at leadership and how leading with the heart can transform not only organizations, but also people's lives. So hang out with us for a minute. We'll be right back.
Stick with us. We'll be right back with more real stories, real breakthroughs, and real lives transformed.
And we're back. I'm Dr. Yasser Sombol. Let's dive right back into today's medical conversation.
Welcome back, everybody, to real medicine, real lives. I'm your host, Dr. Yasser Sombal, and I'm here with Wendy Carroll. In this segment, we're focusing on leadership that inspires. Too often, workplaces feel cold where numbers matter more than people. But true leadership with heart can change lives.
Empathy and connection aren't soft skills. They're transformational qualities that can drive real success while building meaningful human connections.
Wendy, welcome back.
[00:25:50] Speaker B: Thank you. Nice to be back.
[00:25:52] Speaker A: So tell us, what does it really mean to lead with the heart, especially in business?
[00:25:59] Speaker B: You need to have empathy and you need to connect with your employees and others on a personal level.
Learn about their kids, learn about their families. What are they doing this weekend?
Have that connection and actually show lead by example, Share bits about yourself. Don't be afraid to do that and really build that connection with those workers because what you'll find is when you build that connection and your staff and the people you work with feel seen and heard, they actually will go 10 times further than when you don't use that and you just focus on numbers, they feel like they have a stake in the game, that they actually want to work with you and they want to do your best because they're worried about disappointing you at the end of the day.
[00:26:51] Speaker A: And do you find that, you know, why that that's easier with a small business versus a larger, let's say business?
[00:27:00] Speaker B: No, I think you can do it small or large. I've been in medium sized pharma companies with staff. I mean, my last role, I had up to 80 people in my staff.
And I still took the time, especially with the pandemic, to reach out to every single person on my staff, whether they reported to me or not, at least twice a year during the pandemic, to see how they were coping because it was such a different way of working and there are so many fears around everybody in their health and what's next and how do I do this, but making sure that they had that connection and really listening to things that I could do better because there are things I could learn from them. I never went in with an ego.
I was always very open and honest with my staff and let them know I didn't know everything.
And I learned from them as much as they learned from me.
And what I found is after I left, I've had stayed connected with a number of them and I've had a few as I've run into them, want to know when I can hire them back because they would like to come and work for me again. And to me that is one of the best things that could ever happen is having people who want to continue to work with you and who are really excited to hear from you, even if it's three to five years later, they remember you and remember the impact that you had on their lives.
[00:28:26] Speaker A: No, I agree. I mean, I'm a small business owner myself since I own my own practice and I have three full time employees. But you're right, I try, I try my best to connect with them and know about their personal lives. And you know, I consider them like my family, you know, like they can call me anytime, they have direct access to me, day or night if something happens. I always expect them to come to me if they need something. So I completely agree with that. And so it brings us, you know, to the thing. I mean, how can leaders balance results with relationships?
[00:28:57] Speaker B: It's how you approach it.
So it's making sure that when they know, say this is what our goal is for the end of the quarter and they know you're holding them accountable for it and that they have to achieve it. You don't care? I don't honestly never cared if my staff worked, you know, 8 to 5, 9 to 5, 6 to 2, if they had things they had to take care of during the morning and they were on at night to catch up, that was fine.
But making sure that you achieve that goal and that you prioritize and are productive and not just busy.
Too many times, I think we get caught up in busy work because we think we're supposed to look busy eight hours a day, five days a week, and then when we go home, we don't touch anything.
But as you said, knowing.
Having the staff know that they can contact you whenever they need to and also prioritizing their questions for me was something that was big. I think too many leaders get caught up in the numbers because that's where the pressure from the top is coming. You know, look, businesses want to be successful and they try and, you know, say, this is what we're going to do, this is when we're going to do it, this is how we're going to do it.
Well, if you actually listen to your staff and go in with empathy as well, then say, hey, here's what we're going to do. This is how we're thinking about doing it. They may have better ideas that they come up with. If you actually involve them in that conversation, they may have a better way of structuring something, a different way of looking at the problem that you can then get to the end of it and solve that problem in a more efficient manner than what you were thinking.
Just because you're the leader doesn't mean you're always right and know everything.
Especially with some of the younger people coming up in today's world, a lot of them have been through things that we never went through, and they've learned how to solve problems in a different way.
They may be much more skilled with electronics, with AI and different types of software that may make life easier.
So it's something to balance that. And also, if you're a strong leader and they know you don't raise your voice, you don't call them out. When you actually do have to call them out on something, they know that you're serious and they take it seriously. It doesn't bother the relationship. It is business at the end of the day, and this is what we need to do.
[00:31:26] Speaker A: Yeah, I think that's. That's. I can resonate with that as well. I mean, you know, my nurse slash office manager has been with me for over 10 years. You know, we're actually really good friends. I consider her my family.
You know, she knows my kids. She's helped me through a lot of different things. And, you know, it's interesting. I tell people all the time that we're always fine, but she knows when I'm not happy about something and I'm upset and I let her have it. It's okay, we can do that and still go out to lunch an hour later because we have that relationship and we're able to differentiate between our personal relationship and our work relationship, you know, at the end. And I think that, you know, what you talked about was really the need to be able to be empathetic versus authoritarian all the time. And so when you are authoritarian, that message is clear that I'm, you know, I'm exercising my right here to be authoritarian because I can be versus constantly being authoritarian and not listening to the people around you. So I think that makes perfect sense. And so if maybe you can share with us, you know, an example, you know, of how leadership changed, you know, lives and not just outcomes.
[00:32:40] Speaker B: Well, and with all of my staff, they always knew one of the key things that because they work globally and our company was on the always on the west coast, is working with people in Europe.
I would actually look at what, you know, you can look on slack or on teams or any of that and see when people are online and when that happens. Yeah, if I saw them online at 8 or 9 o' clock at night, their time, I would ask them why they were online.
They, there was no expectation that they do that. I didn't want them to do that. I wanted them to actually take a break because otherwise it'll lead to burnout if they work too hard sometimes. I got back, oh, I'm just doing some online shopping while I'm watching tv.
Others it was, you know, I had to take the morning off and I'm finishing up on something I had to finish up on, which was okay, but they knew I was there looking out for them and making sure that they had that work life balance and they had that ability to let me know if they needed time off to because a child was ill.
But the other is we also had opportunities with another program I was working on where we were finishing up the clinical trial and getting all of the data in. And the company we were working with to help us, they knew we had empathy and we had actually made great strides in connecting the two companies to work on this. They stayed up at 2am with us in order to finish getting queries answered for the study. They made sure that they were there to help us finish what we needed to do in order to get that study closed and be able to look at the results.
And that was because we had empathy and we thought of them as part of our team and not just a vendor where we used authoritarian tactics. And it was a, you do what I say and how I, how I tell you to do it.
We actually listened to their feedback and built a great relationship with them so that they were there and they had as much interest in getting things done as we did, which you don't always see in a vendor sponsor relationship.
[00:34:55] Speaker A: Right. So the message here would be to most leaders is empathy plays a big role, authoritarian has a role. But learn to be able to differentiate when you need to exercise both of those.
Great. So, okay, so coming up, we're going to close this conversation with a challenge that many professionals face.
That's the balance of work and life without losing yourself. So we're going to be back with Wendy and we're going to talk more about this topic coming up.
Stick with us. We'll be right back with more real stories, real breakthroughs and real lives transformed.
And we're back. I'm Dr. Yasser Sombol. Let's dive right back into today's medical conversation.
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Alright, everybody, welcome back to the show. So for our final segment with Wendy Carroll, we're diving into a challenge nearly everyone can relate to. Finding balance between life and work. In today's fast paced world, it often feels like something is always slipping through the cracks.
Balance isn't always about perfection. It's about constant adjustment, protecting what matters most and making intentional choices. Wendy, welcome back.
So let's start, let's start out, let's get right to it. So you know, tell us, why is it so hard for people to find balance in today's busy world?
[00:36:55] Speaker B: I think right now with everything being 24 7, if you think about it, you have your phone, you have the Internet, you have TV, everything is 24 7. It's so hard to calm down and just focus on one thing.
People feel like they can call you for business at any time of day or night. And on Weekends. And a lot of times too, if you think about it, the people that we have mentored us or that we actually see and you know, balance off in work are people who've always done that. It was always work hard.
You work for life.
And that was what you did, that was your life. Work was everything.
And you gave your all the work and didn't even think about life, you know, what was going on outside of work or even bring that into work to make any boundaries.
And you felt guilty if, if you weren't working and everybody else was.
So there's that guilt factor as well, because you don't feel like you're being productive and contributing to the greater good, so to speak.
[00:38:05] Speaker A: Yeah, you're right. I mean, in my line of work, you know, it never ends. Even when I'm on vacation.
You know, I could get called anytime, any place. Cause people don't know that I'm on vacation or whatnot. So what strategies would you tell people to implement in their life to kind of make sure they protect their personal time without feeling guilty?
[00:38:27] Speaker B: A lot of that is leading by example.
It's making sure that people know what those boundaries are a little bit harder in your line of work.
And one of the reasons I didn't go on to med school was being able to have a life outside.
[00:38:42] Speaker A: Smart decision.
[00:38:46] Speaker B: But it's a challenge and you have to be able to set those boundaries with the people you work with as well as with your family.
So. And I've done did that early on with my last role because of the commute. I used to have to leave my house at 5:30 in the morning so that I could get to the office in an hour instead of two hours. But then I would leave, leave earlier in the afternoon because it was important to me to be able to pick my daughter up at school and come home with her, have dinner, get her homework started.
And then if I needed to do some things, I would do some things in the evening. And that actually worked because I had staff in Asia as well.
So the time zones for me worked out. But it's something I learned early on in my life. And I made sure I was always home for birthdays, anniversaries, any of the kids important things. I made sure I made it back to go to those because those were important to me. And I realized work will always be there, but these milestones in their lives will not.
So that was more important to me to be able to do that.
And I learned as well to make sure that if I didn't want my staff working on a weekend.
I shouldn't be working on the weekend either.
So I had to make sure that I followed the same rules I wanted for them so that they could balance work and their life and make it easier to do that. And I, for me, I did it without guilt because to me, my family was number one. I didn't live to work, I worked to live. So it's changing that thought process in your brain.
And I think more of the younger generations actually have that part figured out.
They're not living to work, they're working to live.
So they're working to actually afford a nice life.
[00:40:38] Speaker A: Yeah, no, I agree. I completely agree. And you can see that shift in medicine in the way, you know, people pick specialties or what they decide to do. Even hospitalists, you know, have good work, life balance. They work one week, they're off one week. I mean, it's fantastic. So I completely agree. And what do you say as a leader, you know, what's your role in encouraging and helping people and your team achieve that work, life, balance.
[00:41:03] Speaker B: Part of it is living it and showing, showing by example, making sure that you're not sending emails out on a Saturday or Sunday, that you're not sending emails out to your team to do things late at night because they will feel like they have to respond right then when they get that. The other is, I used to monitor, and when my staff was online late at night, I would ask them why and tell them it was time to turn their computers off and go be with their family, unless they had a good reason why they were doing it. Let's face it, there were times we had to work on the weekends, but we tried to make that a rarity.
I also tried to balance, as I said, I had a global team. I had staff in London and Tokyo and Hong Kong and Brazil as well as in the US So trying to balance out when we had things from a time zone perspective was always a challenge. So I always made sure that somebody. We shared the pain because too often the people in Asia and those time zones were the ones on calls at 2 and 3 in the morning, their time, which I didn't agree with.
So I made sure that my staff, at least in Asia, knew that they didn't have to attend those meetings that were that time of day, and we would hold something later in my afternoon, beginning of their morning, the following day, in order to get them up to date on whatever transpired in the meeting so that they still had the information they needed without having to be There in the middle of the night.
We also had a time where we needed London, myself in California and our teams in Tokyo and Hong Kong on a call at the same time.
So in this case we did it in the afternoon in Hong Kong.
And the meeting, it was 6:30 in the morning for the people in London, which was tough, but it's not unreasonable. And for me it was 10:30 at night.
But we did it in such a way that we were respecting the time for our people in Asia, which is where the issue was that we were trying to solve.
So it's respecting that and it's making sure that people know they can come and ask you and say they don't have to tell you what is going on. Like I said, I didn't care where they worked or when they worked as long as the work got done.
So if they had something to do for a personal time, they had to take a parent to a doctor's appointment, they had to go to their kids school and work on something or go play. They were teaching their sports team. I made sure that they actually put that as a priority and then would come back to the work if they needed to. Or they had to be really productive before they left to go do that in order to get the work done. But I made sure they realized that yes, it was my family was just as important to me as I wanted their families to be to them.
[00:44:01] Speaker A: No, I think that's, you know, a really, really good point. I mean I'm, you know, I'm a father, I have two kids. They're, you know, one's a teenager, one's 11 years old. But you know, I've been very, very emphatic about making sure I am at every single one of their things, whether it's a school play, a choir concert, football games, practice, volleyball, whatever it may be. You know, I make it a point to make sure I get there because I think you're right. Those are moments that you're never going to get back and you know, work is always going to be there. But those moments, you know, are important not only to you but, but even to your family, right? I mean your kid wants to look up in the stands and know that you're there watching him and you know, nothing brings them more joy than that. My parents are here cheering me on.
So I think that's, that's great. No, I completely agree with you. So you know, to kind of can true balance really be achieved and, or is it just about adjusting as life changes?
[00:45:05] Speaker B: That's a tricky One, because while we always want to say we have true balance, it's like, oh, yes, I have work, life balance.
I think it's about adjusting as life changes and as the work changes.
So with my work, I had to travel sometimes, and I always made sure to look at my travel and look at. When I asked my team to travel at school holidays for everybody, for those that had kids and for those that didn't, what other holidays or other commitments did they have that they couldn't miss so that they wouldn't have to travel during those times or travel in the US On a holiday or a bank holiday? So we tried to get all the holidays around the world onto the calendar at one time.
So then we all look together to see when we were trying to travel, to meet with each other.
So trying to use that to help balance work and life. But let's face it, oftentimes work intercedes in life at inopportune times, and you just have to go with it, knowing that you're there for your family at the most important parts of their life.
So your kids can look up in the stands or look up in.
In the concert hall and see you there, cheering them on and appreciating their work and what they're doing.
And also they know that if they need to reach you, you're just a phone call away. That's one of the nice things about having cell phones nowadays is there were times I may have been overseas, I may have been on the east coast, but my kids knew they could always get a hold of me via text or phone. And I made sure that I called every single night that I was gone.
As I got older, it was probably easier to make some of those changes and easier to travel, but I also was lucky enough to have a great partner.
My husband was home and he took the kids to a lot of their things when I traveled. So it's having that balance as well within your home, having a good partner to help share the load.
[00:47:10] Speaker A: Absolutely.
Well, Wendy, this. This has really been incredibly insightful. And just one more time, if you could tell us where people can reach out to you, that'd be great.
[00:47:20] Speaker B: Yeah, they can reach out to me through my LinkedIn and either direct message me and let me know that you saw me on the program and are interested in talking to me about any of these things or any of the work that I've done and also connect with me. They're happy to connect with people and talk to people who have questions.
[00:47:41] Speaker A: Great, Wendy, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom. Personal experiences today, from facing change and setbacks to leading with heart and creating balance, you've given our viewers tools they can carry both into their personal lives and professional lives. To our audience, remember, real medicine isn't only found in treatments or hospitals, but in the choices we make, the resilience we build, and the way we carry for ourselves and others. I'm Dr. Yasser Sambal, and this has been real medicine. Real lives on NOW Media, tv. And until next time, stay well and live with purpose.
