Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: Welcome to Real Medicine, real lives. I'm Dr. Yasser Sambal, and together we're showing medical expertise in a human way.
Welcome to Real Medicine Real Lives. I'm your host, Dr. Yasser Sombal. On this show, we explore the connections between health, work, and life, uncovering stories and insights that help us live healthier, fuller lives both inside and outside the workplace. Today we're joined with Erica Butler, CEO of HiHR LLC, where she provides HR consulting and outsourcing with the kind of expertise that usually reserved for Fortune 100 companies.
Erica is also a certified disc coach and trainer who specializes intercultural intelligence, helping international and culturally diverse teams thrive. Erica, thank you for joining us today. Our first topic touches clearly on a very important thing that many people overlook, which is a diversity inclusion, which has been a big topic lately in this country.
And they're not just business issues. They're actually health issues.
So what I'd like to start out with is maybe you can give us an idea of why inclusion isn't just for business, but why it's also for your health.
[00:01:11] Speaker B: Absolutely. It's nice to be here, and thanks for having me. So inclusion is not just a business case. Yes, there's a business case behind inclusion, but. But it is related to health. Because when you don't feel belonging, when you don't have that psychological safety at work, your health starts deteriorating. It's a known fact, many studies have been done about it, and it's something that companies really need to pay attention to to do the right thing. But also, there is a business case behind it as well, which I know we're gonna dig into.
[00:01:40] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I completely agree. I mean, anybody who's had some sort of bad experience at work, it clearly just affects even your mental health in a very drastic way because it's hard to go to someplace you go to every day and just not feel welcome, not feel wanted, etc. And just kind of feel that. That tension.
So, you know, what does it feel like for someone who doesn't feel included at work? What kind of feelings can they go through?
[00:02:06] Speaker B: Yeah, some of the feedback I've heard over the years is just feeling neglected, feeling uncared for, feeling belittled, and that they didn't have a say, that they weren't even people not knowing their name. I mean, that happens at companies that nobody, a leader, doesn't even know their name.
So that makes someone feel like, why am I even here? Why? And just feels, like, belittled. And then the one thing we don't talk About a lot is micromanagement. And that actually creates a lot of health issues in people. When they feel their leader needs to control them and is controlling towards them and micromanages them, it shows they don't trust the employee, which isn't a good feeling for that employee. And it really impacts them, causes a lot of stress to be micromanaged.
[00:02:48] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean I completely can relate to that at times when, you know, when I was younger, obviously now that I'm self employed, it's not as big of a deal. But yeah, clearly micromanagement is a problem and you know, actually people can relate to that at home. Right. When you know your significant other, your spouse is always like telling you what to do and every single step and simple things that itself can sometimes be the same thing. So what are some of the ways small things that, you know, leaders can do to kind of help build belonging for people?
[00:03:21] Speaker B: Absolutely. It's, it's small commitments that actually matter a lot. So it's things like if you don't walk the floor, if you don't reach out to random employees in the week. Say you have, for example, I just Talked to a CEO, he had 250, he has 250 employees and he touches base with five every week. He doesn't probably have time for this or feel like he does, but him so important to him that he reaches out to five random employees of 250 every week. So I think putting things in the schedule like that to make sure you are reaching out, showing up, show you care, ask how Bobby's baseball game went, little things like that, and mean it and be authentic. It goes a long way for people to know their boss generally cares about them as a person.
[00:04:02] Speaker A: So how would you, you know, use that same thing to say, for example, recognition at work, right? So people, you know, how is that, how is that tool very effective, for example, in making your employees feel, you know, I am welcome here, I am included here.
[00:04:18] Speaker B: I'm so happy you brought that up because, you know, at this point I've been part of thousands and thousands of surveys and recognition comes up every time. I can't think of a time it has it as the top four things employees bring up. So recognition is so powerful. So if your organization does not have recognition plan in place to make sure people get a thank you for this, for that, and know that their work and their effort, they're showing up, what they're bringing is appreciated. It is extremely powerful and people do notice and care a lot about that. That can be a Game changer. Because obviously you know their name, if you can recognize them.
[00:04:49] Speaker A: Sure. And what would be some of the ways. Yeah, I mean, clearly. I mean, what, what would be, you know, for example, you know, I'm a cardiologist in private practice. I've been fortunate enough to do well. You know, there's this thing that comes out here every year called by Living magazine. It's a survey that luckily, you know, and humbly have been voted best cardiologist in the county, you know, six out of the last eight years. And, and for me, that's a very humbling experience every time it comes, even though it's not coming from an organization, it's coming from my patients, which is probably the most valuable thing for me. But, you know, I mean, what, what are some of the things you recommend to leaders, you know, and how they can show that recognition and how they can show that they're, you know, appreciating what people are doing for the company?
[00:05:35] Speaker B: Well, I have to tell you, congratulations. Because there. That wouldn't come without leading a team. Well, because. Right, you're caring for people, but your team is caring for people. And when you care for your team, they're going to take care of the guests, the customers. It just goes hand in hand. So congratulations. That's amazing.
[00:05:51] Speaker A: Thank you.
[00:05:52] Speaker B: As far as recognition, if that's something that doesn't come naturally for you, some of us are not always wired that way. There's programs like A spark. There's all these programs out there that you can invest in. It's not a huge expense, but allowing you to, you know, send like we call them great team cards online and then they can pick out a little gift, things like that. If it's something you're not comfortable with, you can put that in place. And the beautiful thing is it's not just the leader recognizing a team member. It's creating a culture of recognition where people recognize each other. An employee recognizes another employee. That also is going to be a conversation at the dinner table that's meaningful. So as a leader, it's not just what you're saying, it's fostering this, leading by example, but creating ways that other employees have ways to recognize each other. And it's this really beautiful feel good experience and culture you can create through just recognition.
[00:06:41] Speaker A: Yeah, no, that those are really powerful tools. I agree. I mean, I try to, you know, my support, my support staff, I tell people all the time I couldn't do my job without them. And you know, I do my best to try to show My appreciation one way or the other, whether it's buying lunch or thanking them for anything, you know, just in general.
So how do you. How do you tell teams to recognize each other and support each other across differences like culture, gender, background, et cetera, religion? I mean, those are all big factors nowadays.
[00:07:13] Speaker B: Yeah. So I like to quote different articles that I just like and learn from, and I'm a big reader. So Harvard Business Review talks about three things, and I couldn't agree more. It's awareness, being authentic, and accountability. And I think in doing that, you know, I could spend the whole rest of the time talking about this, but for instance, being trained as a DISC certified coach, creating awareness that these differences of personality exist, it sounds common sense, but people don't realize, wow, when I communicate like this, it impacts this person this way, and it actually doesn't resonate with them. So the more you can be aware and get trained through your organization or outside of it about the way different people work and how to meet them where they're at, and that's just a way to even recognize and build a good culture. So disc understanding people's different cultural values and preferences like that awareness is really important. Important. So the more your team can be aware, the more they can meet others in the group where they're at and just communicate better and work better together. It's really powerful tool. It's like, aha. Moments that your team has when they get to go through some of this.
[00:08:16] Speaker A: Based on that same subject. So how do you tell people, for example, you know, somebody may have different religious beliefs, or somebody may have different cultural beliefs or different political views. Right. And those are all things that get talked about in the workplace all the time. And so, you know, to me, an idea of freedom is me having a different opinion of you, but you having to respect my opinion or I have a different belief, and you having to respect my belief regardless of whether you agree about it or not. And that's my definition of what freedom really means when we talk about it. So what do you tell people, for example, in a situation like that, you know, when they have those kind of different values or different beliefs, and how do they respond to it and how do they still be supportive of one another?
[00:08:58] Speaker B: It's really interesting you bring this up because earlier in my career, I was taught and told at times to keep that part to myself, especially as an HR professional. But actually, as I've grown, I. I think you want to be as transparent as possible. If you have a faith that's important to you, I think you. That's a big part of your life, so you can be honest about that and then it allows others to be honest. That what they believe and where they're at, it's a big part of our life many times. So I am a big. A supporter of people sharing that at work and bringing their whole self to work. And if that's a part of them, then that's a part of them. And people should be able to speak about how they feel about life and welcome that in. So that's where I stand. I don't think everyone is there, but even if it's Fortune 100, I think there's a space for that and people should be able to be themselves and share what they believe.
[00:09:49] Speaker A: That's true. And so can you tell us, for example, what happens to people's health and performance when they feel safe at work and they're valued at work?
[00:10:00] Speaker B: What I have seen time and time again, when people feel safe and they feel valued, they just thrive. They are engaged at work, they are engaged at home. It spills over to home. It spills over to our communities when they're well loved at work, because a lot of times that's what it is. They just thrive and they do well. On the flip side, I've seen people really mistreat it and they come to HR or we find it in a focus group and they're not well, maybe they gain weight. I've seen people literally gain weight because of the stress of the burnout. Now I've seen, unfortunately, I'm just going to be honest. I've had people call and say, I feel like I want to end my life. I'm being extreme. But that's how bad I've seen it get when people are in these situations with leaders that belittle them. And the sooner we can address it and find it out and get to that information as HR people and leaders, the better, because we want to figure out if that's going on so we can take care of it right away.
It's real. It's very real.
[00:10:54] Speaker A: You know, you mentioned the word disc a couple of times, and so I think maybe for the audience it'd be great, especially in this time, you know, where this has become a very political issue, obviously diversity and inclusion and all this stuff, you know. Can you elaborate what disc means and you know, and tell people what exactly it is that it involves?
[00:11:14] Speaker B: Yes, absolutely. So disc is really a personality assessment that's been backed by like 100 years of experience and research used all over the World by Fortune 100, by many organizations around the world. And what it does is you take the test and you kind of find what your style is. A style can stretch, a style can flex, but you have a preference of what motivates you, what stresses you out. And then other people you work with have a different preference and you find where you are and you see where they are. And then there's all these aha moments that come of that saying when I communicate like this, this really is a struggle for them. And learning that is extremely powerful. So I was fortunate over 10 years ago to work at a Fortune 1 where they train everybody in the whole organization. And I was just I learned so much through that that I wanted to also become a trainer and help other people with it. So I can't say enough, but I recommend everyone go through it. You can literally do it online.
[00:12:08] Speaker A: That's great. That's really cool.
Okay, so we're going to end this segment. We're going to be right back, everybody. Coming up, it's time to break the silence around the workplace trauma and how unhealed wounds at work can affect our health.
So don't go anywhere. We're going to come back with Erica and talk some more about this great topic, in my opinion.
Stick with us. We'll be right back with more real stories, real breakthroughs and real lives transformed.
And we're back. I'm Dr. Yasser Sombol. Let's dive right back into today's medical conversation.
Welcome back to Real Medicine, Real Lives. Love what you're watching. Don't miss a moment of Real Medicine, Real Lives, or any of your favorite NOW Media TV shows, live or on demand, anytime, anywhere. Download the free NOW Media TV app on your Roko IRS device and enjoy instant access to our full lineup of bilingual programming in both English and Spanish. Prefer to listen on the go catch the podcast version of the show right on Now Media TV website at www.nowmedia.tv.
from business and breaking news to lifestyle, culture and everything in between, now Media TV is streaming 24. 7 ready whenever you are.
And so we're back now with Erica. We're going to talk about a really important topic. Erica Butler brings decades of HR leadership and experience to help organizations create healthier workplaces. So in this segment, we want to kind of address about something people rarely talk about, and it's workplace trauma.
Erica, welcome back.
[00:13:47] Speaker B: Thank you for having me.
[00:13:48] Speaker A: Clearly, the problem is that harmful work experiences can leave people with lasting scars and most people don't know how to process Them or find help.
So to start off, you know, what kind of workplaces, experiences that you know of can leave scars, long lasting scars on people?
[00:14:06] Speaker B: Sure. So I'm just being super vulnerable here. But unfortunately I have seen harassment happens still. I have seen discrimination happen. I have been aware of just belittling and even gossip, which might not seem like a big deal, but gossip can be a big deal in the workplace and really impact somebody. So those are a few things off the top of my head that impact someone's health and are not okay and not creating a safe place for people to work and thrive.
[00:14:34] Speaker A: Yeah. And so maybe we can elaborate on some of them a little bit. So what kind of gossip, for example, would you say is really for the people at the workplace? Is it about their personal lives? Maybe they shared something with a co worker and then it got out? Or is it usually work related? You know, they're just not good employees, whatever may be.
[00:14:53] Speaker B: I think it's a few, it's a couple things. So it's people speaking behind their back, but also a leader who speaks poorly about people, other people, to you directly. It's extremely uncomfortable. And that happens.
[00:15:06] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:15:06] Speaker B: So what do you do with that? And then, you know, if that leader speaking badly about others in your team, what are they saying about you? It's just not a trustworthy, healthy feeling to work in an environment like that. Those are some examples.
[00:15:18] Speaker A: Sure. And would that be more of a leader doing the conversation or could that scarring even come just from a co worker having that conversation?
[00:15:27] Speaker B: It can absolutely come from both, but in my opinion, it points back to leader and accountability. So when we are aware that stuff happens is absolutely not okay. And it needs to be addressed and held accountable in the workplace.
[00:15:39] Speaker A: Great.
And so how does workplace trauma affect health, you know, both emotionally and physically?
[00:15:46] Speaker B: Yes. So you know, when you are, when you see people coming to work every day and this is the thing we work to fix, and they feel dread, they feel stressed, and they feel like they're coming to a place where they're not accepted, include it, support it, they experience burnout. And I have unfortunately seen people to the point they have to take loas, they have to take a break from work because they're that unwell, they gain weight, they feel real burnout. As we all know to this point, it's a very real thing that we need to be keeping our tabs on and paying attention to, to prevent.
[00:16:19] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I mean, we grow up in a world in which, you know, we're told, you know, to deal with our own problems, to figure out our own solutions, you know, and so it comes to the next question, and really, you know, I mean, I run into this with my kids. I have a son who's 13 and a daughter who's 11. You know, and there's times when they tell me things that happened at school and I'm like, well, did you tell your teacher? And they're like, no, I don't want to tattletale or I don't want to get in, you know, trouble or whatever. So I think the same thing happens to us as adults when we're faced with these difficult situations at work, because you're really running the risk of, do I open and expose this? And then it becomes a problem for me on the back end because we clearly know that, you know, a company can do whatever they want to you and figure out some way to get rid of you if they felt like it.
And so tell us, give us more insight into why more people don't take action when they're feeling harassed, gossiped, undervalued, et cetera, at work and why they don't go to human resources and discuss it.
[00:17:19] Speaker B: Well, Dr. Yassir, I think you hit the nail of the head already. There is a fear of what the retaliation will be, which is so unfortunate. But I think many individuals, they feel like there's a lot of power with the organization, with maybe the. Their leader, if they're going to confront a problem that's happening. And they fear that what will happen if I lose my job? How will I support my family? I think fear, what I've seen holds a lot of people back. And then unfortunately, because of things in the past, mistrust of maybe they didn't have a great HR person that broke their confidentiality. There's just broken trust that makes them feel like, what's the point of even speaking, speaking up about this? Nothing's going to happen and I'm just going to get punished. To your point, that's very real.
[00:17:59] Speaker A: Yeah. And so what. What words of encouragement or, you know, advice do you give to people in that situation to say the fear of retaliation doesn't outweigh your mental health or your physical health and the impact that this can have on you long term?
[00:18:19] Speaker B: Well, I would say first thing, don't underestimate your. Your power as a person, a free person to share your honest feedback and you should go for it. And if you are not hear that is probably not a company, that's your fit. I think people get stuck after years of a certain maybe organization. And if they are mistreating you or you're being belittled or you're literally having your physical health impacted because of your job, there's many other organizations out there that will treat you better. I hope that organization will listen. Give them the chance to listen and make the improvements. I'm sure you're not the only one that's having these issues, but I think I've been there. I felt like that earlier in my career that I'm like, well, this is my job. This is what I committed to. I'm stuck. But actually you're not. So I think recognizing that and go for it, give the feedback, try to resolve it with your leader. If not, go to hr, go to a senior manager and go for it. Worst case, then you go somewhere else. There's many other good opportunities. It's not worth sacrificing your health for that.
[00:19:16] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think what people don't realize, I mean, when I was in med school, we all thought everybody was really smart, obviously, and everybody was doing so well and getting straight A's in med school, although we didn't have an ABC system, but it was different. But, you know, the reality is most of us just barely passed, and we got through it right, to become doctors. And that's the truth. They tell us that, you know, that, you know, you pass, you become a doctor. That's just the reality of it. But what we don't realize, and most of us didn't talk about grades. And I think it's the same thing. What you're talking about here is we don't know how many people are actually going through the same experience. You are, and you think you're the only one. But the reality is, if you break the silence, then it may get other people to follow. And you see that sometimes when people, you know, finally file a complaint of harassment, for example, against some big CEO or whatever, and then all of a sudden, all these people come out of the woodwork and they're like, well, yeah, this has happened to me as well.
So I think that brings me to what.
How do you really drive people to say, you're not alone? And you know what's. You should really take a role because not only are you helping yourself, but you may help other people in the future.
[00:20:27] Speaker B: I do point back to leadership because if they don't have surveys in place, focus groups, some of the stuff that I was able to uncover in my career, this kind of stuff, was because I sat and traveled and sat with the team members and asked them to their face. And I committed confidentiality and I meant it unless there was a safety issue. And then I stuck around and I heard their stories and sometimes they were dealing with this for years and no one had asked them and no one had done that with them. So I actually think it is pointing back to leadership, creating safe place for them to share and ways to do it without their name attached. When their name's attached, there's a lot more fear involved. But if they can put it in a little box or an anonymous survey or a focus group with nine others and speak to the person after confidentially, that gives them freedom and room to detach their name and their consequence and share honestly. So I think it's really important leaders are putting these practices in place to know what's really going on in the organization and address it.
[00:21:22] Speaker A: So I'm glad you brought that up because that brings us to the flip side then is how do leaders and human resource people give their employees or give their co workers an avenue to say, we are open to these kind of discussions and we want you to come to us when there's a problem and we don't want you to hide it or feel like you're forced to deal with it.
[00:21:45] Speaker B: You need to be very proactive about it. And unfortunately, because many people have been heard in the workplace, it just is a fact. I have taken over several roles where they were.
They're coming to our office, my office, for an award, and they think they're getting in trouble. Like that has happened. People are so nervous going to the HR office, which I truly hate about this profession, because I'm like, you're getting an award. That has happened. And why I say that is, you know, I think as leaders in the town halls and you have to be aggressive of letting people know. We are a team, we're working together. This is a safe place for you. I want to hear what you really think. You're making us better. Your honesty and your feedback make us better. So don't hold back unless win as a team. And the more you can cultivate that, speak to it, show by example. When they give the feedback, you address it. That is going to turn things around pretty quickly. And I've seen it happen.
[00:22:37] Speaker A: Great. And can you give us maybe, you know, an example of a story of somebody who you've dealt with that actually has been able to heal after workplace trauma, maybe what they went through and the process they went through to heal?
[00:22:52] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. There is. I have so many I could share but one individual comes to mind. And, you know, younger in her career, she had a leader that just spoke poorly to her and felt like she even picked the wrong profession. And to the point she shared with me that there was months that she struggled to speak up in a meeting and she was very talented, but because she had that leader for a season, she didn't have the guts to even speak up. And, you know, I tried to encourage her. We gave her opportunities and now she is a leader, astounding leader of many and is just doing so well. And she literally told me, I don't think I'm in the right field. And just because that leader treated her so poorly that was addressed. She had opportunities. It took her months to heal and speak up again and get her confidence back. But oh my gosh, I'm glad she stayed in the field because she's killing it.
[00:23:39] Speaker A: That's awesome. That's really fantastic to hear. So, Erica, for those people who are struggling with silence in the workplace and all these kind of issues that we've been talking about, how can they find you and connect with you to be able to maybe get some advice and what they should do in their situation?
[00:23:55] Speaker B: Absolutely. So we have a website, Gohire G O H I H r dot com. We'd love to hear comments, questions. We'll get back quickly. We're also on LinkedIn, we're on Facebook, we're also on Instagram, so you can reach us there. We also now have our show Go Higher on NOW Media. So I know all of this is on the website and launching soon, but we'll also be with NOW Media with our Go Hire show to encourage more people.
[00:24:21] Speaker A: Great. All right, everybody, we're going to be right back. Up next, we're going to talk about resilience and how to stay strong in the times of change and uncertainty.
Stick with us. We'll be right back with more real stories, real breakthroughs and real lives transformed.
And we're back. I'm Dr. Yasser Sombol. Let's dive right back into today's medical conversation.
Hello, everybody. Welcome back to REAL medicine, Real lives. I'm here with Erica Butler. And now we're going to dive into resilience, something we all need, especially during the times of uncertainty and change.
The challenges of uncertainty at work, whether from layoffs, leadership shifts or new systems, can create stress and anxiety, leaving people insecure and powerless.
So today.
Welcome back, Erica. So let's start out with why do big changes at work like layoffs or new systems just cause so much Stress for people.
[00:25:22] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. Because layoffs, system changes. It's not just that there's so many moving pieces many times and as humans we can only handle so much change.
So there's actually something called the chaos cycle that pretty much as humans we all go through before we get to the other side of the, okay, I got this, I can do this. There's, you know, I can be creative, we can find solutions, hope, and it's just what we all go through. So I think it's so important we normalize it and make sure our team knows you're going to feel some discomfort when we have these big changes and we're going to support you through it.
[00:25:57] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I know. I mean, things in my field change all the time and it drives me crazy. Whether it's electronic medical records, having to do all sorts things of, of stuff, it is chaos all the time.
So, you know, what does resilience mean in the workplace setting? I mean, how do you define somebody is resilient and can get through things?
[00:26:18] Speaker B: Sure. So someone who's resilient can get back up, can fail forward, can just keep going, keep trying, be innovative, problem solve. Just a very positive mindset. And I think as leaders, we need to cultivate that in our team, that we reward that and celebrate that and that we need that today's world, to your point, change has become constant. There's so much coming at us all the time. So you have to get really good at being resilient and getting back up all the time. And failure is just part of the process. You just keep going and keep getting back up and you'll get there.
[00:26:52] Speaker A: And so how do you help people, for example, find that resilience? Because obviously work is one thing, your personal life is another thing. And people can have things going on in their personal life that's not necessarily work related, but it's affecting them at work because they're having to carry that into work and deal with it. Example, somebody going through a divorce, a legal matter, issues with their children, you know, whatever they may be. So how do they carry that? You know, how do you get them to say, okay, we gotta, even if it's a personal matter, you gotta find some way to find yourself to be resilient at work as well.
[00:27:27] Speaker B: Well, for the personal things and for health and all of this, you know, I really highly recommend organizations have an eap, counseling programs of things available for their team to leverage. Because I use it, we all need it at times of our life. We all have different things come up in our life. Right. It's life. So. And there's great times and hard times. So I think it's important organizations have that available. But then on the work front, support, training, encouragement, a safe place to try new things and that you're going to be able to get back up. If you make a mistake, you're not thrown out. You literally have support and training around you.
Communication that is very transparent. So people know what's expected, where they stand. That recognition piece we talked about before, all those elements matter a lot. And if you're doing those things, they will feel like they can handle. Most of them will be able to handle the chaos and get to the other side of it.
[00:28:20] Speaker A: Yeah, you know, I think resilience was defined best in the movie Rocky 5. I don't know if you ever were a Rocky fan, but, you know, he had a scene. Yeah, he has a scene in that movie. You remember, he talks to his son and he tells him, you know, life is not about how hard you get hit, but it's about how hard you take that hit, you get up and how hard you're gonna fight back. Right. And so I think that is truly. And you know that it's a personality thing. You know, not everybody can do it, but I think you can get through that process, like you said, with help. And so encouraging people to find, seek attention, seek help whenever they need it. It's not embarrassing, it's actually sometimes really needed. And it's a good way to get through a process. I agree.
And so, you know, how do your leaders, you tell leaders, for example, when they're going, the organization is going through change or layoffs or whatnot, they can provide some sort of stability during those uncertain times for their employees or colleagues, etc.
[00:29:16] Speaker B: When there is change, make sure you have more scheduled communication, whether it be more town halls, so people know where things are standing. Whether it be, we did, you know, a focus group every quarter now, we're going to do it every month. Because how are you with the change? How are things going? Like a really close tab on how the team is doing and bringing them into the creativity of change. Because every time there's change, there's more problems to solve and there's a way you can pull people in more, that they're going to be part of the solutions, which helps them get to the other side. So those are just some tangible ways leaders can be thinking about addressing this.
[00:29:50] Speaker A: So I like that you mentioned town halls, because I see, I get these emails from hospitals all the time. You Know, come to our town hall meeting, etc. And you know, in my opinion, sometimes I'll be honest, sometimes I think they just bring us there to talk and then nothing ever really changes and they don't really care what we think.
But how do you tell employers when they have these meetings so that people take them seriously and feel, you know, like their issues are being addressed, how do you encourage them to say, you know, you really need to find things that you can address in this and make that change in order to create confidence between employees and employers?
[00:30:28] Speaker B: Well, a best practice I follow is every town hall, there's an action plan update from the survey, from the focus group. You told us these are the three things you want solved this year. This is the progress, this is what has been done, this is what's being done.
So you really put action items into it and then you better show up and do it in the workplace. And that's one tangible way you can do that.
[00:30:50] Speaker A: Yeah. And so you know what, what?
So on the other side, what small steps can employees take to feel that they're able to be stronger and adaptable to these work change environments?
[00:31:04] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely they can. If they feel like they're not getting the training they need, if they feel like they're not getting the support, they should be able to raise their hand.
Most organizations, I think most will welcome the feedback and provide the training needed, go to their leader and say, share honestly, hey, I'm concerned about A, B and C. And this is why. What other training can I have? What other, you know, just being honest and open in the communication. Show up to the focus groups, be honest in the surveys, you know, really be part of all of that going on, and speak up. I know it's hard sometimes, but if employees aren't doing it, leaders won't have the honest feedback to make the changes needed to get to the other side of the chaos.
[00:31:48] Speaker A: And so I like that point when you said speak up and let me address that, because I can address that from a personal standpoint. I'm a physician and there's a lot of organizations that just want, yes. People in their organization. They don't want people to speak their opinion. They don't want you to tell them where you think things can be better or wrong or improve on a quality metric or something.
Where do you encourage people to say if you think this is best for the organization and this is your opinion and you're entitled to your opinion? I really think, regardless of whether they act on it or not, that you should speak Your mind.
[00:32:26] Speaker B: I completely agree. And again, just from my life and experience, if you truly are not being heard and you feel like you are bringing value and you are caring and you are trying to make a positive impact, that is probably not a fit for you.
And I hate that. I want organizations to listen and to value those people that are willing to take that risk and step up. Those are the people that really care the most and are willing to do that. Future leaders, really, in my opinion, what I've seen, I think then that person, I guess, needs to do their best, speak up. And if they're not being heard and not feeling heard, maybe there's another place that's a better fit. I'm just being honest. I don't even like that that's the case. But it comes to that sometimes. There's many great companies out there.
[00:33:07] Speaker A: So where do you tell employers, on the other hand, right, to say, hey, you want these people in your organization to challenge you to make you better? And don't take that as a threat, but take that as a way of improvement?
[00:33:21] Speaker B: I think I was really fortunate, the first decade of my career to work for Fortune 1 hundreds that were very innovative. They valued innovation. I felt like I could speak up. I felt like I could be part of the solution. So I just got used to that. But you're right, there are organizations that don't.
So sorry, the question, it's not foreign to me, but can you repeat that last part?
[00:33:41] Speaker A: No, I'm just saying, you know, you mentioned how employees, you know, if you have an idea, feel, you know, to me, for example, personally, I'm like, you know what, I spent this amount of money on an education. I'm an intelligent person. In my opinion, I should be entitled to give my opinion. I don't see why I have to shut up. Because an organization doesn't want to hear what I have to say. And so you address the employee side of it and you encourage people to say that. And if they don't want to listen, then that's probably not a good fit. But how do you. The flip side of that is, how do you encourage an organization to say, hey, you really want people who are going to challenge you, not in a negative fashion, but constructive criticism, give good ideas, be open to this kind of insight in order to develop the organization and make it better. And you don't want people who are just going to put on blinders, you know, like horses in a parade, and walk through and just follow you blindly in whatever you do, whether it's right or Wrong.
[00:34:34] Speaker B: Yeah. Thank you, Dr. Yusuf. That's where I was getting to, actually. So, really, that was perfect. So what I've seen and what we execute is we, on a high level, literally look at the surveys of leaders in the organization, and we ask those questions, and we're flagged on leaders that are not providing that environment.
You know, you think of these Fortune 1 hundreds that took a lot to get there, and they want to keep growing. They're doing a lot of best practices to get where they're at. They're really good at what they do, and they will not have a leader who is acting that way. And they literally monitor it. We would do contributions where people were, you know, judging, okay, what are our strongest leaders? What are their future potential? And we would include their employee survey there. So there's an insane amount of accountability. So if you don't have accountability for leaders to that level in your organization, you want to know how employees feel. If you have a leader that's leading that way to your example, it is not okay. And you want to have an organization where employees can speak up, can show that they did all the hard work to your point, they want to make a difference, make an impact. Those are the employees you want, and you want to see them be successful. So if you don't have surveys around that and accountability, that's something to really pursue.
[00:35:40] Speaker A: It works. No, I completely agree. I mean, I think workplace should be a place where it should foster thinking, it should foster, you know, innovation. It should foster challenges in order for everybody to get a different opinion. And when you make it impossible for people to do that, I think it actually makes the organization suffer, and it causes regression rather than progression. You know, not to make it political, but it's part of what's happening with our government today. You know, our senators and congressmen are unwilling to speak up against what they clearly believe is wrong in order to appease our leader. And, you know, I don't find that to be right either, because they have. They're not, you know, doing their job as far as I'm concerned. But I digress.
So.
Okay, we're gonna be right back. Coming up, we're gonna look ahead to the future and explore how workplaces can become places of healing and growth and not harm. So hang out here for a sec. Erica is gonna be back to talk to us a little bit more.
Stick with us. We'll be right back with more real stories, real breakthroughs, and real lives transformed.
And we're back. I'm Dr. Yasser Sombol. Let's dive right back into today's medical conversation.
Hello. Welcome back to Real Medicine, Real Lives. Do you love what you're watching? Don't miss a moment of Real Medicine, Real Lives or any of your favorite non media TV shows. Live or on demand, anytime, anywhere.
Download the free Now Media TV app on Roku or iOS and enjoy instant access to our full lineup of bilingual programming in both English and Spanish. You'd prefer to listen on the go catch the podcast version of the show right now on now MediaTV website at www.nowmedia.tv.
from business and breaking news to lifestyle culture and everything in between, now media TV is streaming 24. Seven ready whenever you are.
So welcome back everybody. I'm Dr. Yatro Sumbal and we're here with Erica Butler, who's helping us reimagine what the workplace could look like not as a place of stress and harm, but as a place of actively supports healing and growth.
So in this final segment, Erica is going to help us reimagine the workplace what the workplace can look like, you know, not as a place of stress or harm, but that a place that actually supports healing and growth.
The root of the challenge is that too many workplaces still hurt people's health, but with the intention and leadership, companies can create cultures where both people and performance thrive. Erica, welcome back.
Thank you. Tell me, give us an idea. What does a truly healthy workplace look like in real life?
[00:38:25] Speaker B: Absolutely. So it's where people can bring their whole self to work, where they just feel good coming to work, they feel supported, feel loved, even goodness sake. They have community and they feel like they're making a positive impact and have purpose in what they're doing. That's how I would describe what it's like working at a healthy organization.
[00:38:46] Speaker A: So do you think people can actually make it a healthy organization? So a lot of people have. For example, some people can say I am yasser at home and I'm a yasser at work. Right. But I'm really not like that. I'm the same Yasser at work that I am at home. And I think that makes me part of who I am and it creates that safety and healthy work environment for myself because I don't have to feel like I got to change when I go to work. You know, I'm the same person. Yeah, I may have to be professional at times, I may have to adjust to certain situations, but I'm the same personality when I go to work than I am at home. And do you think employees can be part of that in making the workplace healthy?
[00:39:29] Speaker B: Absolutely. Employees have a role in that. But if they don't have the experience at work that shows they can be like that. And if they need to provide for their family or there's more on the line, I think there's more on the leadership side that needs to foster that. But you're right. I agree. Every employee has an impact on the culture. So there is onus on the, on the employee for sure.
[00:39:52] Speaker A: And so what can a leader do or an employer do to really push that? To say, hey, we want you to be part of making this a healthy work environment?
[00:40:04] Speaker B: I think it does sound simple, but just creating that awareness that that's a value the organization shares and inviting people to do that and celebrating it. And even things like employee resource groups putting things in place that allow people to engage in different ways outside of just their job. So it could be a community service organization, it could be career development, it could be employee resource groups for Hispanic organization that everybody can join. Even if you don't have a Hispanic background, things like that. It really is powerful and paves the way for creating that space.
[00:40:37] Speaker A: And so, you know, what do you tell leaders or organizations about why it's really important for them to care about people's health, not just about the productivity of what they're doing?
[00:40:52] Speaker B: Well, it is the right thing to do. I think most of us as humans want to, if we're leaders, we want to lead places where people feel healthy and supported and that they're thriving. I think most of us would. Would say that. But again, it's not always the case and not everyone was trained how to do that. It's not always natural for everyone.
So that's what I'd have to say about that.
[00:41:14] Speaker A: Okay, and is there things that employers can do to encourage that? They are really not only caring about the well being, not only care about productivity. Sorry. But also care about the well being of their employees.
[00:41:28] Speaker B: Yes. So I mean everything from creating wellness programs to speaking openly about it, to role modeling it for employees and showing vulnerability. I think vulnerability is really powerful as a leader to show that to your, to your staff. They feel like they can also have that and model the. You're modeling the way for them to have, have that as well.
[00:41:48] Speaker A: Do you ever encourage, for example, you know, an organization to say, have an exercise room or a yoga room or, you know, whatever, a room to meditate in or things of that nature to encourage not only health and fitness and just stress relief, et cetera, at the workplace, but shows that this is a way of they care about their health and their productivity.
[00:42:15] Speaker B: I've been part of supporting gym passes and all of that and gyms at work, but I've never been part of putting a yoga room in place. But I do think it's great and it just shows the commitment of the workplace to make that happen. So I'm a big fan of it.
[00:42:28] Speaker A: Yeah. And have you noticed for example, that that has a positive impact? I mean you get the feedback from the employees when they do that, that that actually has a positive impact on the workplace.
[00:42:40] Speaker B: Every time I've seen a wellness program launched or be part of it, I get good feedback.
All things from, you know, even a health challenge that we're going to set a three month goal and see who achieved their goal, that kind of thing, and we track it together, anything like that. People rally around it and feel excited to do that with their colleagues. That's what I've seen. Only positive things.
[00:43:02] Speaker A: Do you guys ever do, for example, before you decide to implement this kind of stuff, do you ever do a survey, for example, and say, you know, whether it's dissatisfaction at the workplace. Right. And then you implement something like this and then you redo the survey, let's say six months later and you try to see if the results had a positive or negative impact on the previous survey. Can you give us an example? If you. Something like that, I mean, I don't know if our wording it correctly, but something like that, where you're able to track that these changes have actually made a difference.
[00:43:33] Speaker B: You know, just being fully honest with you, I've never quite had that detail.
We've tracked much more engagement and people feeling emotionally, psychologically safe at work and feeling supported and healthy that way. So in that sense, every time we've listened and for instance, I've been part of rolling out flexibility, work arrangements, even something small like jeans at work, just things that employees are asking for. Then the next next year they're surveyed, I've seen results double jump of just people satisfaction. I've seen turnover cut in half. I've seen more people getting promoted internally. Amazing like metrics that show that people are healthier and doing better at work, that kind of thing. But to be honest, not exactly like checking someone's a wellness rollout. But I think it's a good idea and we should do it. That is a good idea that you have.
[00:44:24] Speaker A: No, I'm just curious because if you're telling people, hey, we've shown that this is better, I mean, everybody likes hard data To a certain extent, you know, I mean, that's just the way the world works. So, you know, I mean, I'm just curious if you guys have that kind of stuff.
So tell us more about, you know, how does a healthy workplace, a lower stress, reduce burnout and actually turnover.
[00:44:49] Speaker B: Yes. So when you have a workplace that people feel like they belong, they feel supported, engaged, that they're getting good training, all those things, I have seen it many times, but turnover drops. One instance I saw turnover cut, just giving examples from 14% to 7%.
I saw, in one year, 100% of the job offers accept it. So people, even, you know, you have employees and leaders interviewing people, and they want to be part of this because they see the passion, the energy. It just shows people are thriving at that workplace. They're excited about what they're doing. They feel the leadership are caring for them, supporting them, developing them.
You see these real metrics move. So, yes, like I said before, of course it's the right thing to do, to care about people's health. But when you show up and take care of them emotionally, physically, psychologically, all these things, the numbers in business also go up and it goes in the right direction.
[00:45:43] Speaker A: Have you ever been part of some place where you went there and they said, yeah, we have this really high turnover. And then you kind of look at their system and then you say, why don't we make the following changes? And look back later and said, after these changes, their turnover actually went down.
[00:45:58] Speaker B: Yes. And they call me the HR rockstar. I can give you other examples, but the one that sticks out, the first time I ever got to be part of it and see that everything I learned in my masters and in my experience really works. I had a chance to roll out everything, everything from the focus groups. They weren't doing everything from the, like, new hires were leaving. So we did, like, all these touch bases. We connected them. We did a mentor mentee program, we did a career development committee. And literally, in a year, turnover did cut in half. And I could tell you other stories, but this one stands out because it was such a win that I got to be part of. And we had open positions we filled quickly. I mean, literally every important era of HR went up. It was really, really cool. At a Fortune 100 company, that's the first time I saw it in action. And we've been able to do it ever since.
[00:46:44] Speaker A: That's awesome. That's fantastic. So, you know, take us towards the end of the segment, I'd like to say, you know, what's your vision for the future of work and where businesses success and you know, human health go hand in hand.
How do you envision this moving forward and creating this environment? Moving forward.
[00:47:02] Speaker B: Yeah. So I'd like to speak a bit on the international scale because in places now, like for instance Dubai, I work in Dubai, a big fan of it, they have health checks and they have wellness centers that not everybody, but they're going in that direction where they're really caring for their employees health and they're going out of their way to be proactive. And it matters to them that their employees are making healthy choices and leading healthy lives, that their leaders are leading that way. So that's just one example in another part of the world that they're integrating that. So what they're doing, I think more we see how important health is to what we can do in our life, our energy levels, everything, it impacts everything in work. So I think it's going to be cared about more and more for us and we're going to keep investing.
[00:47:52] Speaker A: Okay.
Give us just one powerful change a company can make that puts people first.
[00:48:04] Speaker B: If I had to say anything, the number one thing, if you do not have two way communication in place where people can speak up anonymously, find ways to put that into your regular day to day, week to week, month to month commitments as a leadership team.
[00:48:20] Speaker A: Okay, Erica, this has been really, really valuable. I've loved this conversation honestly. And can you give us last time for the viewers where people can follow your word and continue this conversation with you if they'd like to?
[00:48:34] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. You can find us on NOW Media, the Go Hire show.
Also at our website is go hire G-O-H-I h r dot com. We'd love to hear from you. You can send us a comment question and we'll definitely get back. We aim for 24 hours always. And we are also on LinkedIn, Facebook and Instagram. So love to hear from you and engage and collaborate.
Thank you.
[00:48:57] Speaker A: Thank you Erica. Thank you so much for sharing your important insights on this deep connection between work and health today. You really helped us see how inclusion, healing, resilience and care can transform not just the workplaces, but lives for our viewers. Remember this. Your workplace has the power to harm or to heal. Advocate for your environments that value you, support your growth and protect your health.
This is real medicine, real lives. I'm Dr. Yasser Sambo. Thank you for joining us and we'll see you next time.
